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What Do Last Week's Elections Mean for the Transportation Tax?

Join Patch users across Georgia in a discussion about next year’s TSPLOST vote.

"We may need more connector roads between interstates and other major arteries, or we may need something else. But that by its very nature will continue to require increased infusions of tax dollars to keep it running."—Tom Maloy, Powder Springs

"Nobody I know likes to pay taxes. However, for counties and municipalities."—Dan Matthews, Oconee County

Every day, people in 43 Georgia communities talk to one another through Patch, exploring local, state and national issues through the lens of their town, county or neighborhood.

But some issues—like the 2012 referendum on a penny sales tax to pay for transportation improvements in multicounty regions throughout the state—are big enough that we all can benefit from a broader discussion.

With Patch, we have the opportunity to share ideas from Athens to Acworth, from Midtown to Marietta. And maybe if people in these communities talk more often, we can understand the issues, and one another, better.

Many Patch users, bloggers and contributors have already weighed in on the Transportation Special Purpose Local Option Sales Tax, or TSPLOST, most of them against it:

“The regional transportation group expects the taxpayers will willingly vote to raise their taxes another penny through a new TSPLOST—‘ they seem to be saying. From where I stand, the government has not shown itself worthy to ask for more money from our pockets.”—Ray Newman, Dacula

"They can all they want— for a bunch of projects that will not improve my Avondale-Buckhead commute."—KP, Decatur Patch

We learned from Tuesday’s elections that a majority of voters across northern Georgia are willing to pay an extra penny on every dollar they spend to fund local education projects: ESPLOST referendums passed by wide margins in Athens and Oconee, Barrow, Gwinnett, Walton, DeKalb, Fulton, Douglas and Cherokee counties. (Bartow, Forsyth and Walton counties also approved general-purpose SPLOST proposals.)

So, what does that mean for the TSPLOST in 2012? We want to know what people across our Patch communities think, and why.

What are the major transportation issues for Atlanta and surrounding regions?

Does this week's education sales tax success suggest similar success for the TSPLOST next year?

Will you vote for a transportation sales tax? If not, how should road and transit improvements be funded, if at all?

Join the discussion in the comments.

Chuck Bagley November 12, 2011 at 06:18 pm
Walton County Residents I will be holding my Quarterly Town Hall meeting on Friday December 9th at the West Walton Senior Citizens Center. The agenda will include TSPLOST, the Walton County Projects, the projects and projected revenue for each of the 7 Cities in Walton County with Information regarding the other counties within our Region. The Town Hall Meeting will be from 10:30 AM to 12, Noon.
Sharon Swanepoel (Editor) November 12, 2011 at 06:26 pm
Commissioner could you share some of that information with us here. This is actually a state wide discussion and it is sometimes helpful for others to see the regional impact of things like the T-SPLOST.
Chuck Bagley November 12, 2011 at 07:42 pm
Sharon, I will when I have my information together T-SPLOST is a statewide discussion just as county elections are a statewide discussion. There will be 12 regional elections each having nothing to do do with each other. I am interested but not concerned about the region that includes Savannah or Macon or Valdosta. All the counties in each individual region either fail or succed together no matter what your definition of fail and suceed is. I will be as detailed regarding information regarding Walton county's region but I have little concern regarding the same type of information for Cobb or Fulton county. Please email me and be as specific as you can regarding the information regarding Walton county's region. Maybe someone from Gwinnett county can give you similar information regarding the Gwinnett side of Loganville,
John Irving November 12, 2011 at 09:33 pm
To all the knuckledraggers whining about "socialism" - I agree. Let's let every county stand on its own legs. For everything. No more state sponsored schools, roads, hospitals or other endowments. Keep in mind, that unless your county is named "Fulton", "Dekalb" or "Clarke", you're pretty much going to be either belt-tightened breakeven socially regressive townships, or dead broke, illiterate and diseased shantytowns, as these counties (Fulton and Dekalb especially) CARRY THE REST OF THE STATE. What these delusional, decidedly lower-middle class suburbanites whining about "wealth redistribution" don't seem to understand is that they are the single largest beneficiary of wealth distribution in the state - people in my tax bracket here in Buckhead pay for the rest of you hillbillies to whine about how terrible Atlanta is, and then demand we fund your backwoods roads, your stupid kids schools and your medicare to pay for your early-onset diabetes. But heaven forbid we want to cut down the commute, increase air quality and join the modern age of transportation for the city paying for all this: that's SOCIALISM, and - as I'm sure you would've learned in highschool had you not dropped out to go to work in the dirt factory - socialism IS EVIL, especially when dirty brown people benefit from it.
Read a book, you illiterate rednecks - and stop asking for a handout. We want a modern infrastructure, and until you can pay for your own stuff, you better get used to the idea.
North Georgia Weather November 12, 2011 at 09:51 pm
You must be one of those perfect Buckhead people. I don't want you to fund a thing for me, you keep your money and we'll keep ours. I don't need your money or your sorry attitude about people that live outside your elitist neighborhood.
And vote no to T-SPLOST.
Jimmy Wilbanks November 12, 2011 at 10:06 pm
Please ask your Walton County citizens if they go into another region in their daily commutes. If you sit at the Dacula City Hall any given workday morning around 5:30 a.m. you will see a great number of Walton County (and Barrow County) tags passing through (I guess) Dacula on Harbins Road. Though most would not think of Harbins Road/Dacula Road as a regional asset.
Jimmy Wilbanks November 12, 2011 at 10:08 pm
Wow, Mr. Irving, you hit everyone outside Buckhead right upside the head. Get a life!
M.K. Osborne November 12, 2011 at 10:48 pm
I dont think his mama loved him !
Perry Parks (Editor) November 12, 2011 at 10:51 pm
Thanks, everyone, for a fascinating conversation so far. One of our goals in posting this discussion widely across Georgia Patches was to encourage people in different regions to point out common interests, and, of course, areas of disagreement. What would be really cool is if folks who disagree could also consider where their interests might align. This requires a bit more intellectual energy, but it's also how problems get solved.
L. Davis November 12, 2011 at 11:13 pm
John Irving (I've read everything you've written - read Hotel New Hampshire twice) and agree with you. Though you were a little heavy handed I have to admit. But think about this - I have to live amongst the whiny knuckledragging illiterate rednecks.
No Name November 13, 2011 at 12:44 am
L. Davis, no you don't. You can go live with Mr. Irving.
Katie - Gas tax is the most fair tax. The big gas guzzlers pay for owning them. The people with fuel efficient cars pay less. Things like HOT lanes are regressive taxation. The bus boy making $8 an hour has to give up 10% of his salary to get to work quickly. The CEO uses pocket change. I prefer the more equitable tax, but first you have to convince me that it is needed. No one has convinced me that layers of bureaucracy can't be cut out. Instead we are adding layers of "regional governance." There is no reason we can't work together as a region without having a layer of unelected bureaucrats.
Susan Edwards November 13, 2011 at 01:54 am
@DaculaWeather - There are definitely parts of Gwinnett County that have the problems that R. Anderson is mentioning above. R. Anderson might be generalizing about the state as it applies to Gwinnett, but even our schools have problems. I've interacted with recent graduates from the Gwinnett County School system that have many of the issues that R. Anderson mentions above. I have had children in the Gwinnett County School System for 5 years now, and have seen some amazing teachers, and some hideously awful teachers. And I've seen rules passed down from school administration that defy all logic and hurt students success. You are making the same type of generalization that R. Anderson makes when you make a statement like "Gwinnett County is not the rest of the state."
Susan Edwards November 13, 2011 at 02:26 am
I have read lots of comments about the individuals from outer counties causing all the congestion as they commute into the city, but if you look at the list of areas that are getting projects the largest portion of them are for downtown/midtown. And many of these are bus routes. In other words, a portion of this money is going to be used to "bail out" MARTA. If these are the areas that need the work, then put the tax there. The individuals that are commuting from outer counties can pay the tax when they lunch and shop downtown. And my husband and I (neither of whom commute into downtown) won't have to pay for it. Here in Gwinnett County, we have done several major road projects payed for with a similar "splost" type of tax, but we pay for it ourselves! We don't go to Fulton/Cobb/Dekalb counties and ask them to contribute to our projects - other than money they happen to spend within our county of course. Bottom line - The small number of projects in Gwinnett County mean that I will be voting NO for the TSPLOST.
R November 13, 2011 at 05:37 am
Maybe we could spend the 6 MILLION dollars or so that is being used to market the TSPLOST to us to fund those alternatives or research thereof? And based on the rich responses from Buckhead, it appears we are easily missing 5 or more percent right there alone. Time for a LUXURY surtax on Buckhead zip-codes. We can always spend someone else's money and add yet another layer of government cost to support. Of course, if you believe a regional union is the only solution, please consider this; Based on the regional setup of TSPLOST, would you vote to dissolve your county and city governments and combine them into ONE entity for the region? no more CIDS, Tads or Overlay Districts. No individual city or county boards and the same goes for education. Because each of the services provided by these local entities impact the region and consolidation would reduce costs while providing more effective coordination of resources...
Please vote NO! on Tsplost
North Georgia Weather November 13, 2011 at 10:26 am
@Susan Edwards... I work for the school system in an elementary school, my wife teaches at a middle school here, and I've worked for school systems for more than 23 years. I understand school systems much better than most of you.
We graduate a lot of kids, some are smarter than others, like any other large group of people. The differences I see in graduating kids are environmental issues, how they were raised and by whom, how much parental involvement they had (if any at all), etc. It's not what or how the school system teaches, everyone gets the same education. It's what kids do with that, that matters. My wife has kids that just don't care, their parents don't care... how do you teach those kids? At some point you have to shift the focus on those that want to learn. Please tell me of some of the rules that hurt students success... I haven't heard of any at our elementary school???
M.K. Osborne November 13, 2011 at 04:39 pm
No means No !!
Hal Schneider November 14, 2011 at 06:23 pm
So, can someone please tel me how transportation projects have been paid for in the past? Why is it that all of a sudden, we need to impose a TSPLOST for transportation needs that have always been paid for through other taxes in the past? Where is all of that money going?
I voted against SPLOST (mainly for a new courthouse/jail) in Forsyth county. Why would I vote for a TSPLOST and increase our sales tax to 8% when it should be 6%? No thanks!
hazybuck November 14, 2011 at 07:14 pm
Jeff, you're spot on.
Urbanist, if you truly believe that our tax dollars didn't pay for that road to begin with, you're delusional. The toll was set to pay for the road, not be a toll in perpetuity to fun incremental projects. The GA 400 toll should end as originally agreed upon by the voters.
Chuck Shiflett November 14, 2011 at 09:21 pm
Georgia's gas tax hasn't changed in almost 40 years... it's the same cents per gallon. During this time cars have become much more efficient using less gas per mile traveled, meaning less tax revenue per mile traveled... plus inflation over the past four decades has pushed the cost of road construction and maintenance many times higher. Bottom line? Georgia's gas tax would need to be at least tripled or quadrupled to put us at the same level of funding per mile traveled (adjusted for inflation) that we had in the 1970's.
Gerald McDowell November 14, 2011 at 10:28 pm
States received notice from the federal government a couple years ago that there would be a 25% decrease in funds transportation over the next 30-40 years - so when GA DOT looked at maintenance and operations as well as new transit needs, there needed to be a way to cover this 25% decrease as well as the decrease within GA
Hal Schneider November 14, 2011 at 11:59 pm
So, Chuck, tell us how gas consumption has tracked here in Georgia since 1970.
Hal Schneider November 16, 2011 at 04:21 am
Since Chuck didn't respond, I checked myself. In 1980, per capita gasoline consumption in Georgia was 503.6 gallons annually. Population was 5,463,087. Total gallons consumed was 2.751 billion gallons. In 2010, the population was 9,687,653 and consumption per capita had risen to 563.94 by 2005 (no later stats were available. If we use the 2005 consumption per capita number, we consumed 5.463 billion gallons of gasoline in Georgia last year. So, even though the TAX per gallon may have remained the same, the revenues from the tax almost exactly doubled!
Urbanist November 16, 2011 at 02:59 pm
Doesn't change the fact that the toll shouldn't be removed, and if anything should be increased..
Chuck Shiflett November 16, 2011 at 05:16 pm
Hal the other side of the equation is that the total miles traveled from 1980 compared to 2010 more than doubled... plus when you factor in inflation we are getting less inflation adjusted dollars per mile traveled than we were in 1980. Bottom line? Our existing roads are taking a pounding and we have less $ for maintenance per mile traveled... and it is projected we would ne between $50 and $70 billion just in new transportation spending in GA (on top of what is already projected to come in) over next 20 years to just to keep what we have working and add a few improvements.
I'm no fan of the AJC's Jay Bookman, but he does have some interesting stats in a piece he did in the paper today. According to hom, road construction costs have doubled in just the last 18 years due to inflation. http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2011/11/16/toll-roads-a-sign-of-political-failure-cowardice/?cxntfid=blogs_jay_bookman_blog
Scott Long November 16, 2011 at 05:43 pm
So, costs doubled (just due to inflation), and actual dollar revenues doubled to meet the inflation. Sounds like we're set. But even if we're not set, then user fees in the form of gas tax is the place to do it, not a sales tax that is not credibly connected to road use. Taxing something makes people do less of it. Would you rather encourage people to drive less, or encourage them to buy less from their local shops?
Michael Stone November 16, 2011 at 09:01 pm
Tea Party columnist Tom Maloy just added to the discussion by saying the TSPLOST isn't a true SPLOST. In his latest column (http://patch.com/A-nK7t), he writes: "You see, the so-called TSPLOST is not a SPLOST at all. Its real designation is the special district transportation sales and use tax. It’s the product of an entirely different piece of legislation, HB-277, that does not include the protections inherent in the SPLOST law. As a result, the project lists are much more fluid, and there is greater latitude regarding how the money is spent. There is nothing that guarantees that all the projects on the list will even be done. If the flip-flopping and money shifting that occurred in developing the Cobb County project list is any indication, we’re in for a bumpy ride over the next 10 years." Agree? Disagree?
No Name November 16, 2011 at 09:09 pm
That same inflation has hit people's pocketbooks too. We're all learning to live with less. Government needs to go on the same diet we've all had to go on, not come with their hands out asking for yet more. Let's not even talk about how government compensation has changed since 1980. TRIM THE FAT FIRST!
No Name November 16, 2011 at 09:12 pm
Who sponsored HB-277? And who voted for it?
No Name November 16, 2011 at 10:09 pm
Thanks for saving me the effort. What a guy!
No Name November 16, 2011 at 10:10 pm
Sponsored By
(1) Shaw,Jason 176th (2) Maddox,Gene 172nd (3) Roberts,Jay 154th (4) Williams,Al 165th (5) Black,Ellis 174th (6) Lucas,David 139th Sponsored In Senate By Bulloch,John 11th

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Mary McQuinn June 5, 2013 at 03:44 pm
Thanks everyone for your generosity! We raised enough!
Bryan Chandlee-Exum June 6, 2013 at 02:53 pm
What a lovely gesture and thank goodness the money was raised. I seem to keep getting the news toRead More late. my fault I am sure. I would like to know of any other donations needed in the future, would love to help Misty's daughter Tabitha if I can.
Mary McQuinn June 7, 2013 at 12:00 am
Update A college fund has been set up for Misty Myrick's daughter. Those who wish to make aRead More donation can go to any Pinnacle Bank account number is 5255142 Edward or Tabitha Taylor. If you are unable to get to the bank you can mail it to 3140 Lexington Rd. Athens Ga 30603 Thanks & God Bless!
Rosalyn Holl January 2, 2013 at 05:51 pm
Thank you, Rep. Broun, for standing up for your beliefs. In doing so, you have represented theRead More best interest of the American people. Please keep on.this track for the sake of America.
Bill Caputi January 3, 2013 at 04:49 pm
Imagine that! A mockery of a representative calling an issue a mockery! How much of his outrageousRead More salary and benefit package is he willing to give up? And what he calls fact is seriously distorted information. Good leaders don't run and hide from an issue and then blame others for their shortcomings... I realize good leaders are hard to find.... but, why do we continue to tolerate mediocrity? A vacant seat would be just as effective as this congressman... actually, as I think about it, probably more effective.
Stephanie Gross (Editor) May 16, 2013 at 05:41 pm
Beautiful, Cindy. Thanks for sharing!
Sharon Swanepoel (Editor) May 16, 2013 at 06:17 pm
Love those pictures - and congratulations to the graduates. You can also post a personalRead More congratulations to your graduate in announcements on Patch as well.
Tammy Osier May 22, 2013 at 12:53 am
What a beautiful young girl Nicosha Pugh is! Love her hair! I'm sure they are all so proud as areRead More their parents! Unforgettable day for graduates!
Stephanie Gross (Editor) May 8, 2013 at 01:54 pm
Beautiful photos as always, David! Thanks for sharing.
Sharon Swanepoel (Editor) May 8, 2013 at 01:54 pm
Beautiful flowers David - I love spring. Now if it would just show up before summer hits this year!
Stephanie Gross (Editor) May 14, 2013 at 02:08 pm
Erin and Charlotte, Thanks for adding your photos to the mix!