I think they should have an organization-wide non-discrimination policy that also includes rules for the individual units. The current proposal is a step in the right direction, but it is not enough.

I think it is utter crap for a private organization to bow the will of anyone or anything that is not in the long term interest to the goals and founding principals of BSA.

The reason they "caved" is they get "public moneys" ie taxes and they are afraid that money will be withheld. End of story.

monies, that is.................

The BSA receives no direct funding from the Federal government (no tax dollars.) They do occasionally use military bases for jamborees, local police forces often promote Boy Scouts with mentoring programs, etc. So, indirect use of facilities (for which a cost could be calculated) is their only "government subsidies." Can't get much more private than that.

One of the national organizations for gays states that 3% of the population is gay or bisexual. Talk about the tail wagging the dog. Why is so much time spent even discussing this 3% agenda. Leave the BSA alone. Find something else for the weakest out of work lawyers (ACLU) to do.

Have they completely lost their minds or learned anything from history. You don't hire Chickens Hawks to guard your precious little chicks!

Mr. B:
The BSA defines itself as a religious organization.

No I do not, nor will I support them or any organization that supports gay rights. It is an abomination in the sight of God. That is the reason God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. Sodom had become such a wicked city that the angel of God told Lot to take his family and flee the city because he was going to destroy it. The homosexual men came to Lot's door and Lot offered him his daughters but they insisted on having the sons and the angel of God struck them blind and they wearied themselves to find the door. Read the 1st chapter of Romans where Paul talks about how unnatural that lifestyle is, even compared to the wild beasts. Yeah, I 'm a KJV believer and proud of it. I don't care if society has accepted it, I have not and will not. It is depravity and wickedness. The book of Revelation talks about on the day of Judgement that the murderers, adulterers and effeminate will be cast into the lake of fire which burneth forever and ever. This is the second death. But I know some people are "Progressives" and think that our beliefs should evolve to match the times. Not So with this Man. Universal truths and the Word of God is Timeless. The Soul is Timeless. God said, "I am the same yesterday, today and forever and I Change Not." Many ignorant people believe that the Holy Bible is Mythology. I consider it to be the Infallible Word of God. Think of Me what you will. I will probably get 6-8 hrs. of sleep tonight worrying about it.

I work at a Very Liberal university here in Atlanta. I have for 32 years. I have worked around gay people all of that time. Do I dislike them, No. Do I dislike the lifestyle, Absolutely! It is the lifestyle that is the abomination. Now, people like Jerry Sandusky should get the death penalty in my opinion. I save my hate for Obama and his administration.

And Amy, being "Popular" does not concern me in the least.

I am totally against the Boy Scouts caving on this issue in any way!

Well then Sarah , I guess you wouldn't mind him being a Boy Scout leader then.

I no longer support Boy scouts or allow children to join. The Bible says that christians who promote sexual sin, especially GLBT sin are fake christians & we should shun them & not even sit and eat at the same table with them. The Bible says that good/God cannot co-exist with evil. Some pro-GLBT boy scout groups with others against it will not work. All true christians will have to leave & it will be only GLBT and those who support sin. The pro-GLBT scout leaders/administration & members must be purged from the organization. I financially boycott all GLBT businesses/organizations. We don't allow kids to be indoctrinated with the GLBT agenda in person or through TV, movies, internet, friends, school etc. One boy scout leader sexually molested a 10 year old boy and was convicted & went to prison. He is not out in society and has "come out as homosexual." He volunteers with the GLBT organization PFLAG and PFLAG has let him lead their protest against the Boy Scouts. He says that his volunteering with PFLAG makes up for the child molestation which he agrees was wrong to do. He feels that he would be a good Boy Scout leader and protests the fact that they don't allow gays like him to be leaders there. Welcome to the REAL WORLD! There is no gay gene & it is not genetic. No one is born gay. It is a choice & they need proper help, not encouragement to engage in a lifestyle that is unhealthy, unnatural, & potentially reduces your life by 20 years.

I made a typo...the child molester is NOW out of prison...I accidentally said "He is not out in society"

Amy L....All the scouts would have to do is charge a small fee to every scout and it would make up the difference. Also, I am sure that more churches & organizations would send money if requested. I would prefer a leaner Boy Scouts that doesn't give in on what they stand for. The morals they promote is more important than the money. There are many church clubs for kids that do a lot of things like the boy scouts without spending a lot of money....so the boy scouts are capable of doing that also. I used to donate camp tents, stoves, and equipment directly to the camp leaders & avoided the administration in my donations. I am sure they could get a discount by buying in bulk. How much is the administration getting paid anyway?

The word of God (Bible) was sometimes written down by the finger of God Himself (the 10 commandment) and at other times men wrote as the spirit of God moved them too write. God gave the message and they put the message into their own words. Also some of the Bible is a documentation of History. It is all holy & protected by God so that no changed have occured in it's writings through history. However, that does not include the "new versions" other than the King Jame Version. The "paraphrases" and others have made some changes and should not be used. As apostle Paul stated "I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ for it is the power of salvation" so don't bother trying to discredit the Bible with arguements to me. The arguements are always from people who have not spent their life studying the Bible within the context of the Bible as a whole. It always seems to be that they pick a verse or two that they don't like...take it out of context and clearly
show that they don't understand what the Bible says...and try to discredit the Bible. God never changes. The truth yesterday is the same tomorrow. So don't bother trying to convince me it is out of date with the times. God knows the beginning and the end. He doesn't make mistakes. The people who engage in such behavior just don't like having a God tell them what to do or what is right/wrong so they argue. They are unwilling to submit their will to the will of God & deny that he is a God
who can read their heart.

After it's all said and done, "Does anyone really care except the kids?"

@Sarah, if sexual orientation had nothing to do with it why did he just molest young boys? I didn't hear one word in the news about him molesting young girls.....Wow!, you must be an Expert on Pedophiles.

Oh, and I'll discuss anyone on here that I believe is relevant to the conversation.

Amy,
Those who argue against what the Bible says have no concept of what it teaches because they take Bible texts out of context with the rest of the Bible & do not know it's history. This web site refuses to post valid answers to your arguements it is impossible to discuss it with you. I would not be willing to accept most if not all of any "studies" that you accept because the medical establishment has no PROOF ...especially psychiatry which is a failure at most of everything that they do & doesn't back up their statements with any kind of proof or morality. GLBT organization studiess are biased & therefore not valid. Reasoned discussion stops when people who are biased against God &/or religion try to argue against it. Web sites refuse to allow sustantial discussion which is necessary in order to make a case. We do NOT base all of our beliefs only on the Bible...but also in natural law (the the nature that God created.) I do NOT base my beliefs only on the Bible and natural law (nature) but also on my personal relationship with God & His direct impact on my life and this world. Religion is not just a mental understanding of God through the Bible & his works in nature but it is also a personal relationship with a real being & how that relationship changes lives. You have no arguement stronger than that of God's word or the natural world or my personal relationship with God. We are not a dying breed...& surveys are usually biased and not based on truth.

Afairhope,
If you knew the history of the Bible you would know that not all of the laws in the Bible were written by God or created by Him. SOme parts of the Bible are a record of people creating their own laws. And there are many acts in the Bible that are recorded...but the simple fact that they happened and were recorded doesn't mean that God approved of what they did. The Bible is full of sinner's and their sins are recorded but that doesn't mean that their sins were approved of God. You are taking the Bible out of the context of the whole Bible. THe Pharasees and scribes were rebuked by Jesus for creating man-made laws that they claimed were based on God's laws...therefore making the Sabbath a burdon rather than a blessing...and making burdensome the lives of others in many respects...by creating laws that were not created by God. So don't just assume that every law in the Bible that is listed as existing is one created by or approved by God.

Diana
The Bible says that we SHOULD judge others...by what they produce. Do they produce good fruit or thorns? Are they promoting what the Bible says or what is against Biblical teaching? While the Bible does say that we can & should pray for sinners...doing ONLY that is nothing short of cowardice & a refusal to follow God's word. You base your choices on emotion not God's word. The Bible says that if someone who is a church member is living in sexual sin & you know about it that it is your duty to go to that person privately & lovingly try to bring them to repetence, God & out of their sin. If they refuse to repent then you are obligated to go back a 2nd time with 2 or 3 other church members with you...usually a minister, deacon or other Biblically knowledgeable & wise person. If that person still refuses to repent & follow the word of God then the matter goes before the whole church. Generally this is done through a committee of church leaders who try to bring the person back into a right relationship with God. If that person continues in their sin, then their church membership is terminated & they are not welcome in the church anymore. Church members should shun them & refuse to even sit and eat at the same table with them. We also shun all church organizations that promote sexual sin in the church. (Refuse to work on issues with those organizations) However, with the church members of those churches we do the same as we would with our church members.

Marie, Let's not forget the bible is a collection of stories with some historical significance, but was actually assembled by men. Mere mortal men are who decided which books to include and which to exclude. Mere mortal men translated each book too. I doubt King James was much of genius. While the bible is an excellent history reference and indeed a great life choices reference, it is subject to all the imperfections of anything else put together by a committee of men. I am just glad that Congress wasn't charged with this task.
I would be fine with the Boy Scouts including gays. It would only mean a maximum of 3 or 4 gay guys per 1000 straight guys so it's not likely to make the Boy Scout experience any different. I think it would offer a good perspective for both parties.
PS I used to be against this.....but I grew....a little.

Amy,
Look up who is FUNDING the research and you will find that it is often biased. Research has a very longggg history of contradicting itself and being proven wrong. First it was eggs will give you high cholesterol and now it is proven that they don't. One research paper conflicts with the results of another one. Look at all of the drugs that are approved and then taken off of the market because the research was flawed and they hurt to many people. If you believe in statics...look at the Health Department's statistics on the lifestyle & health of those who engage in homosexual lifestyles. I have posted it just now...it Patches didn't decide to delete it.

Amy,
I do not look things up on YouTube. I can't stand to listen to the commercials and I have better things to do.

Racer X
I don't drink alcohol...never have...it is against my beliefs and ruins good judgment. And I do believe that it has caused MUCH harm to society...I was almost killed by a drunk driver (totaled car). My pregnant girlfriend who was on her way to the hospital because she was in labor was hit by a drunk driver...killed the baby & nearly killed the mother. I constantly see things in the news about how drinking causes domestic violence, makes women easier targets for rape, causes people to do things they normally would not do because of bad judgement. It creates homelessless, loss of jobs & family, is a bad example for kids, etc.

Also, it is not my job to "steer people to Christianity". It is my job to sow the seed, the Holy Spirit is to water it, & it is ultimately the choice of the person who hears the word to accept or reject God. People do not convert people. God does. We just sow seeds (truth). If you don't like the truth, that is your problem. It is a HUGE disservice to God to give the impressions by words, acts, or silence that sin is OK. There are many kinds of sexual sin. As for homosexuality, there is no gay gene & it is NOT genetic...& they are NOT born that way. The Bible makes it clear that He made everyone heterosexual....and sin can be discovered at any age. And the Bible makes it very clear that only the word of God convicts the heart of sin...not people. And only turning to God is the answer.

Racer X
If boys need counseling regarding their sexual feelings...the Boy Scouts is not the proper place to get it. Parents, ministers, christian counselors who are trained in such things are Ok if the parents consent. People who allow their children to join the Boy Scouts are devoutly opposed to having others discuss sexual topics with their children. It is the parent's responsibility to do so and it is an infringement on parental rights for others to try to take the parent's place. Also, child molesters can use such opportunities to groom children for sexual abuse. Such a policy allowing sexual discussions is a bad idea. In private school we do not teach sex education...we teach anatomy & physiology. The rest is up to the parents. I would NEVER send a child to public school because they violate parental rights and teach things that we would never approve of or agree with. I would advocate the Boy Scouts teaching anatomy & physiology and have the scouts get a patch to sew on their scarf for learning the parts of the entire body...NOT just the sexual anatomy.

Racer X
Sexual orientation is obvious by the body. In anatomy & physiology and science form equals function. Every part of the body has a particular function and purpose. (animal & human) The heart, lungs, kidneys, stomach, gastrointestinal tract, eyes, ears, teeth, tong, lips, urinary tract, rectum, skin, etc. is a certain form for a particular function. Form equals function make is quite apparent what the purpose of the penis and the vagina is. That alone shows through natural law what the purpose of the body is even without reading the Bible. Abusing your body by using some parts for a purpose they were not created for or over working or abusing some parts results in health issues, disease, & sometimes death. I think the statics on AIDs and how it is transmitted and other health issues makes that clear. If everyone lived according to the Bible's rules regarding sexuality there would be absolutely no cervical cancer, AIDS, sexually transmitted diseases, etc. Except that in the past some mothers took drugs that resulted in their babies having certical & uterine cancer in the future. That is why drug use during pregnancy is a serious matter. Those women took the drug to avoid losing the baby and the risks of the drug were not known at that time.

Also, since you are a self confessed butt hole, I would recommend seeking God's help with that. It is a choice....not genetic...and no research has shown that it is in your genes.

I do not believe in making an issue out of every thing that a person does that doesn't agree with my beliefs...out of the blue for no reason. But I do believe in stating my position when it is appropriate...like my statement to you reguarding drinking alcohol.

What I don't understand is The Boy Scouts do not want gays in their organization. So why don't gays make their own Boy Scouts, why do they have to force themselves where they are not wanted? It's all so bogus. Don't force your beliefs on me and i won't force mine on you.

John B
Anyone who uses the term "homophobic" is unintelligent. The word phobic means to be afraid of which is in no way whatsoever a description of people who are opposed to the promotion of homosexual behavior. It is merely an attempt to harrass people who have an opinion that you don't like. That word is always the last resort that people who have no valid arguement use...which never convinces anybody and only cowards let that stop them. That behavior shows that you cannot or choose not to discuss anything in an intelligent way. And as for gay people coming from straight people...well not all straight people are responsible for the choices that their adult children make. Some people try to be the best parents possible but their kids still have freedom of choice when they are grown up and may choose to do things that are immoral or against the law or harmful to their health. And just because a parent is heterosexual doesn't mean that they are good parents. There are many kid's that were removed from unfit heterosexual parents & put into foster care for abuse or neglect. But when you are grown up you are responsible for your own choices & actions. The brain is not fully developed until a person is around 23 years old & the last part of the brain that is developed is the part most necessary for the use of good judgement. Some minds work better than others simply because of age and brain maturation.

Racer X
If you can't have fun without alcohol you might consider getting into a drug treatment program. It is sad that you feel that you need drugs to have fun. Alcohol is not a beverage, food, or necessity. It is a drug which can be highly addictive and ruins many lives. It is fun to have a dinner get together without it or take a hike to the top of the highest mountain or at the beach. It is fun to ride bicycles, play games with kids, go roller skating, or go to a good concert. If you can't do any of those things without alcohol, you have a problem. I grew up in a community and in a family where alcohol was never used. It is so superior to have parents who are never under the influence or alcohol or any other drug that I feel sorry for kids whose parents don't give them that example. Parents use drugs simply because some of them are legal and set a bad example and then wonder why their kids sometimes become addicts. And some parents are a good example for their kids but have kids who are just rebelious. I wish for you a good life...one where having a good time is not dependent on things that are unhealthy for you.

homophobic - a term thrown out at any one that doesn't agree with you faith valued beliefs, another one is bigot, Bible Thumper, fanatic - yet if you sling a word or two back your the bad guy.......... I find bigots are more apt to be liberals b/c they are intolerant of any one that doesn't agree with them.

Diana,
I don't know anything about your relative...but when it comes to shunning it is done only when a person is a church member and does notintend to live up to the teachings and doctrines of the church. If you don't agree with the teachings and doctrines of the church then you shouldn't join the church in the first place. Or if you joined & changed your mind on the issue you should remove your church membership yourself. The church is not applying shunning to non-church members unless they try to disrupt the church's service & activities or try to undermine the church from within by attending for the sole purpose of causing problems. People who claim to believe in the churches teachings & doctrines and join the church but do not live according to those teachings & doctrines are hypocrites and liars and are not a good example within the church or give a bad reputation to the church to outsiders. If you don't believe in the Bible, don't join the church.

Diana,
If you were driving 100 mph going down the street in the wrong lane heading into oncoming traffic...would it be loving to sit there & tell you that you are doing great & everything is OK. Or is it more loving to tell you that what you are doing is dangerous, wrong, & can leave you injured or dead...and tell you to stop, slow down, turn around, & go in the right direction? When someone is living a lifestyle that is immoral, abnormal, harmful to soul & body...is it loving to give them the impression that everything is alright with your words, actions, or silence? Or is it loving to tell them the truth? God didn't come to save us IN our sin. He came to save us FROM our sin.
I have a friend who used to live as a homosexual. He came from a bad home without his real father. Older guys took advantage of his situation & convinced him that he was a homosexual. I told him that he wasn't & that nobody was born a homosexual. Through discussion & kindness he changed. He married & had kids. It has been many years & he has never considered himself to be homosexual since. People can/do change. If he had acted like these GLBT organization members do...I would not allow such conduct in my home or around children. GLBT people cry "tolerance" while being intolerant of anyone who disagrees with them & their rights. I shun & boycott them financially because they try to force their agenda down the throats of everyone, especially kids in school/Boy Scouts.

Diana...while editing I messed up a sentance. I stated "GLBT people cry "tolerance" while being intolerant of anyone who disagrees with them & their rights. I meant to say "GLBT people cry tolerance while being intolerant of anyone who disagrees with them & they attempt to deny such people (who disagree with them) their rights.

I think that I have said all that I wish to say...and I do not consider any further discussions to be beneficial...so I am leaving the discussion on this subject. I will not answer any further repllies.

I really don't care what your sexual preference is as long as you live up to the BSA's code of conduct. If we can have senators, congressmen, teachers, cops, church leaders in some communities that are gay, what is to any of us whether or not a man / woman in the BSA is gay. I truly believe we need to judge people based on their contribution to society, character etc and not use their sexual preference to influence our moral compass. If being gay is such a big sin, is hating another man any better or worse? I've never seen a gay man or woman force there preference on anyone let alone our kids. It's amazing how we always revert back to biblical teachings when we talk about gay rights so on that note, let he who is free of sin cast the first stone.

Marie you can not tell a gay person anything they don't know already. To them you are ranting at them. "you are casting your pearls on deaf ears" You are commanded to love them as God loves you. I agree most of the people I know who yell about intolerance are intolerant themselves.

Edward the point is to not cast stones but to love the sinner but not the sin.

As much as I dislike gays telling me what I have to accept I also dislike my sister and brothers in Christ crumbling before the gay pressure.You can not be a Christian and support the gay life style. It is against the teachings of God and Jesus Christ. The Bible is not a history book it is the blue print for living a good life.

If you truly wanted to disect the issue, put gay males on one island and gay women on the other, in one generation they would die out. On the other hand with straight people that wouldn't happen - thank you Darwin. :)

It's a freaking club, leave them alone. When did this country become so socialistic bordering on communistic........

I can think of at least two additional merit badges the BSA is going to have to add before you can become an Eagle Scout.

What state are you in? Try going to California or Massachusetts & you will find that GLBT people try to force acceptance and promotion of their lifestyle on everyone...generally through laws....and most of all to kids. In California it is now mandated that GLBT people be included in the history books but including any information "that reflects negatively on GLBT people is not allowed." Imagine that, if you said that about the heterosexuals half of history would be eliminated or re-written. If you said that about the Germans, Hitler could not be mentioned. ONLY THE GLBT people can be discussed & included in history without being allowed to mention any negatives about them. Kids in school are MANDATED to attend a celebration of the pervert Harvey Milk if they come to school and the day of silence to promote the GLBT lifestyle which is promoted by all school teachers & staff...so those who don't believe in promoting it stay out of school. There is transexual day for 1st grade where they are required to dress as the opposite sex. The day of silence in support of the GLBT lifestyle. Harvey Milk day to promote the GLBT lifestyle. Decent people keep their kids out of school on those days. They can't afford to teach science but the state can spend $800,000/year on the gay-straight alliance club. The schools don't educate kids, they teach political correctness & immorality. Teachers are required to give all 12 year olds condoms whether they want them or not by state law.

Parents are not allowed to opt out their kids from indoctrination that they are opposed too...which is why so many go to private school or home school. If you check online you will find that many teachers have been convicted in court for having sex with minor or students....yet parents can't opt out their kids from allowing teachers to discuss & promote GLBT lifestyles or sex to the students. In some states boys who claim that they think that they should be girls are allowed to use the girl's bathroom/locker room.

If a church rents out their space for weddings...they must also rent it out for gay weddings even if it is against their beliefs...so they don't rent out their facilities at all.
If you are a wedding planner, make wedding cakes, do wedding photography, or anything else for weddings...you cannot refuse to provide services for gay marriages even if it violates your religious beliefs. If you own a printing business and the GLBT organizations wants you to print out pamphlets that promote things against your beliefs...you cannot refuse to do it by law. Of course, many people find ways around those laws...but those laws should not be on the books. A perfect example is the Boy Scouts. It is a private organization...religious because you must believe in God to join...yet the GLBT people demand the right to join. ONe of you asked why don't they just start their own organization. You must be naive to think that they respect anyone else's right to their own beliefs...even a church. And they won't stop with demanding that homosexuals join. They will also demand that transexuals and people who are in the process of having sex change operations have the right to join. They will try to flaunt and promote and force their lifestyle on every kid that they can. If you don't believe it...check out the Gay Pride parade.

Edward, the BSA's code of conduct is to be morally straight...which means GLBT people don't qualify. GLBT behavior is immoral and so are most if not all senators, congressmen, and church leaders who are GLBT or promote it. Just because you are a teacher or a cop doesn't mean that you are moral. There are many teachers who have been convicted of having sex with minors or their students. There are teachers who promote sexual immorality and perversion. And their are corrupt as well as good cops. I believe in judging people according to their character and anyone who engages in sexual imorality or any other immoral behavior is showing that they do not have a good character. Apparently you think that sin is OK and that people who do immoral things are not immoral people. Most people would disagree with you...and the Bible especially disagrees with you on that. That is why everyone must repent of their sins and follow God. A follower of Christ is one who seeks to leave immoral behavior behind and follow what is right. An immoral person is someone who seeks to continue immoral behavior and tries to justify it. Just because you feel like doing something doesn't make it alright or moral.

Racer X
I wasn't trying to get you or anybody else to attend church. It never even crossed my mind. I was trying to make the point that people who are FAKE CHRISTIANS because they condone, promote, or engage in GLBT behavior SHOULD NOT be church members and in true christian churches they are NOT ALLOWED to be members. People who have no intention of following the teachings of the Bible should not be members. If you don't like what the Bible says and aren't willing to submit your will to the will of God as stated in the scriptures...there is no point in your being in church other than to harrass or cause disruption out of spite. I am not required to kiss your behind and try to get on your good side (if there is one) and drag you to church. You are responsible for your own salvation and I am only required to speak truth. If you don't like the truth and don't want to be a christian or go to church...God will hold YOU accountable for your own additude and actions, not me or anyone else. And quite frankly, I don't give a damn about what the devil likes or doesn't like. My focus is not on the devil who trembles because he knows that his destruction is near (and who wants to take as many as possible with him). My focus is on God. A church is a private organization and only those who believe in the Bible and it's teachings and follow God can be members. Those who do not follow God only destroy the church from within and give false testimony to the community.

Read Romans 1:16-32 which was written by Paul if you don't believe that the Bible condemns GLBT behavior or that such people could be considered christians without repenting and turning their back on such sin to follow God.
It states that nature itself shows you the invisible Godhead & his power. But when it was seen some people did not glorify or thank God but they "became vain in the imaginations & their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise they became fools...wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves...who changed the truth of God into a lie & worshipped/served the creatuer more than the creator...so God gave them up unto vile affections for women changed the natural use into that which is against nature. And also the men left the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men...and receieived in themselves that recompence of their error. They did not like to retain God in their knowledge so God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things...they were filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness, full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity, whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful

continued...
knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things (homosexual acts) are worthy of death. But not only do they engage in such acts but have pleasure in others that do them." Romans 1

Romans 2
God will render to every man according to his deed. To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life. But unto them that are contentious and do not obey the truth but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath. Tribulation and anguish upon every soul of man that does evil...but glory, honor, and peace to every man that worketh good...for there is no respect of persons with God...for not the hearers of the law (of God) are just before God but the doers of the law shall be justified.

All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus....to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God.

God promises that even if your sins are red as scarlet that he will make them white as snow. God promises that he will separate your sin from you as far as the east is from the west. God forgives. Romans 6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we that are dead to sin live any longer therein? ...we should walk in newness of life...that henceforth we should not serve sin....chapter 8...there is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit .

We wonder why we have mass killings. Morals have been destroyed in this country by the current administration. Please people do not give up your moral beliefs for a few. This is why kids have no respect, they see this country basically given the green light to any kind of immoral behavior. What do you have left, a country with every moral being trashed and just a free for all on anything that goes. It is a sad time in America. What is next, letting all the sociopaths go because they have mental problems, it is not their fault, they were born that way. Stop it while you can, otherwise the country is no better that Sodom and Gomorrah, and will be dealt with as such..

Mark 10:6-9
From the beginning of the creation God made them male & female. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother and cleave to his wife. And the two shall be one flesh: so then they are no more two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together let not man put assunder. (definition of marriage)

John 3:19-21
Reaction of those who oppose God's ways:
"This is the condemnation (of God), that light is come into the world & men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that does evil hates the light, neither comes to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that does truth comes to the light that his deeds may be made manifest that they are wrought in God.

quoted from Marie". If you don't believe in the Bible, don't join the church."

girl you give Christians a bad name - you don't read the Bible your to busy beating people over the head with it. Obey the commandments given by Jesus - Love Others As God has Loved you. My thoughts are you need some anger management classes.

Diana
I am not interested in your personal opinions. You are one of the people that claim to believe in the Bible but only the parts you like. If anyone quotes from a part of the Bible that doesn't fit your agenda...you deny the truth of those parts of the Bible. Your definition of love is inaccurate. It is not love to deny the truth about immoral conduct. If no one says the truth about sin...there will be no conviction of sin...no repetence...and no salvation from sin. I don't believe that you are a true christian. I believe that you are one of those that the Bible says I should not associate with...ie...fake christians...who act like love is the only thing that matters...forget about stating the truth...which leads to repetence to those who have good soil in their hearts...which leads to salvation, etc. Read the Bible...it is not love to condone sin. And I am not angry. And I am loving others as God loves me. The Bible says everyone that God loves he reproves. If God didn't reprove people regarding sin in their lives He wouldn't be loving them. Just like if your parents let you do and think anything and any way you wanted no matter what the consequences were...that weren't be love. That would be not giving a damn about you or your well being or future. Everyone God loves he reproves. No need to reply to you again.

John B

Speaking in tongues is when someone is with a group that speaks a different language than they do...and God gives them the gift of knowing how to speak another person's language so that they can tell the people about God. Speaking in tongues is not some "otherworldly" language that sounds like gobbley gook and nonsense. God only gives the gift of speaking in tongues when it is His will to do so for a specific purpose...giving the message of God to the people when there is no one else that speaks the language of the audience that can do it. If the people cannot understand what you are saying...there is no benefit in the language. The benefit of speaking in tongues is that the people can understand what is being said. In the Bible sometimes many people from many different countries/languages were together...and anyone who could translate what was being said by a person who was speaking in another language so that the group could understand the message was speaking in tongues. Since we are all speaking English here...no need to translate. Can you speak in tongues?

Marie - no need to reply and yet you do...... just got to get that last word in.

I really feel sorry for your family, must be hard living with someone who is so perfect.
phfft so are you like a card carrying member of Westboro?

People asked me...NO...I am not a Baptist church member & I do not consider the Westboro church to be a christian church. Whether or not I would agree with the lifestyle of the deceased or not...I do not believe that having a demonstration at a funeral is appropriate. It benefits no one in my opinion...not the dead, not the family or friends of the deceased, and to say the least it is insensitive. If the deceased isn't going to be in heaven that could only make it harder on the family...why rub it in? But they don't know the person & they aren't God & do not know what happened in the last day of his/her life...so it would not be appropriate to show up at any funeral & state that someone's loved one is going to hell. Only God knows that for sure. The demonstration isn't going to wake the dead, bring him/her to repetence (how do you know he/she didn't do that already?), and result in their receiving eternal life. I don't think such actions result in helping people who are grieving. I do not see how somebody else's funeral affects the Baptist church members so I do not see why it is their business. If they want to make a political statement...let them stand in front of the white house or the military department or one of the GLBT organization buildings (after all, the GLBT arrive at churches & disrupt their meetings with assaults, blow horns, or by breaking in during services to kiss each other & throw condoms around the place). But why stoop to GLBT tactics?

My question is, "How do you know someone is gay unless they talk about it?" Just curious. The dadt was a great policy for the military. If you go on the who's business is it anyway premise. I've never understood why people have to announce their sexual preference (what is the purpose if there is not a reason). Just wondering, so don't cruicify me on here.

I'm sure that most people would prefer not to make an announcement, but I imagine that it's quite a burden to go through life living a lie. Years ago, a lot of gay people married and had children, desperately trying to become what society expected. Now, most just want to go out in public with their partners without fear of running into someone they know. Most organizations would frown upon people talking about their sex life, gay, bi-, or straight.

Patricia...the beliefs in the Bible regarding GLBT behavior is not about ancient culture & cultural mores. It is about morality. God is the same yesterday, today, & tomorrow. God never changes & neither does right & wrong or moral and immoral conduct. What are you going to promote next? Polygamy? Cheating on your spouse? Are you into polyamorous relationships? Obviously you have no morality so why even discuss it with you? You are on a slippery slope where nothing is immoral or wrong...& disagreement with anything is called hate because you have no morals yourself. If you did...you wouldn't pull out that stupid/ineffective ploy called the "blame it on hate" card. I guess if someone murders you, I shouldn't hate what they do because there is no right or wrong...& why be intolerant of people who kill people I don't even want to know? God has righteous indignation which is a hatred of evil. He not only hates evil...he intends to wipe out those who practice it. You intentionally leave out Biology and natural law which hasn't changed. And people who have no valid opinion always call disagreement with their opinion hatred...which is in itself hatred/ignorance. And intolerance of evil is a good thing...evil only increases when good men do nothing. So do you think being opposed to child molestation is based on ancient traditions & cultural mores too? I suppose you are in support of evil? Yes? I feel no fear and I am not ignorant (although you sound like you are).

Racer X
No...I don't consider Presbyterians to be christians...or anyone who would join a church that accepts/promotes sin & sexual immorality. I don't see you claiming to be a christian even though your name may be on the church books. Having your name on the church books doesn't mean that you are guaranteed to end up in heaven & in some churches it doesn't mean anything...except it makes the minister look good if the numbers increase & probably benefits them tax wise. Some ministers don't care if your name is still on the books although you haven't attended in 10 years. Maybe you go for the good food at the pottlucks? Or you think it is a social club? Or it is free entertainment for the kids? Maybe the wife twisted your arm? Or maybe your name is on the books but you rarely attend? You don't sound like a christian to me. You sound like a partier who would be more comfortable at a strip club getting drunk than studying the word of God. Of course, maybe you skip the strip club (and work the internet instead) and try to remain somewhat sober because your wife has a shot gun or a mean frying pan? Who knows. But it would be impossible for me to consider you a christian or even slightly religious. You probably haven't even read the whole Bible once. You probably pray only once a year over Thanksgiving dinner. You a christain? LMAO. If it were illegal to be a christian (which might happen), would there be enough evidence to convict you?
So why are you a member?

I don't go to strip clubs. I just had an acquaintance with a daughter who became a stripper, then went off the deep end religiously, I thought perhaps you were she.
Why am I a member? Why not? I'll let my pastor know that our whole church is going to hell, he'll get a big kick out of that.
Tell Lucipher I said hi during your next strategy meeting on how to drive folks away from God.

I don't consider churches that don't consider the Bible to be the word of God as stated in the Bible...but consider it to be just a man's personal opinions....to be of a christian religion. Either you believe that the Bible is the word of God or you don't. If you don't...then you are not a christian.

Racer X
I don't talk to Lucipher. Maybe your well aquainted with him since you want me to say hi for you. People make their own decisions about God & those who are offended by the scriptures I typed in wouldn't have be christians once they read the Bible. If you think that what is in the Bible is offensive to non-believers...then I guess you should only discuss the parts that non-christians have approved as non-offensive...thereby destroying the power of the word of God. Narrow is the gate & straight is the way that leads to salvation & eternal life. But wide is the gate & many are the paths that lead to destruction.
Me, a stripper? LMAO. I & all of my relatives/most friends attended private christian schools and maybe a year or two of private boarding schools or were home schooled....same for their kids. I attended both public & private college & have a BS degree, continuing education, state license & permits. My husband is more highly educated than I am. My relatives include an anesthsiologist, surgical nurse, dental front office, dental assistant, lawyer, government employee, fireman, grocery store manager, contractor/builder, sales & repair, hospital employee, forester, real estate appraiser, teacher, 3 ministers, military, office manager, medical records & billing and other similar things. We are generally well educated, have good jobs, & educated in the Bible. 99% of us don't smoke, drink alcohol, or use medically unnecessary drugs (no pot).

Racer X
My husband has been an extreme athlete ever since I met him. If I were already healed from an injury I have I would be outside training to get back in top athletic condition like I used to be...which is when I frequently ride my bicycle 50-75 miles and hike to the top of mountains or at the ocean instead of sitting here at this computer.

Racer X
I am opposed to strip clubs.

Gotta go...I have to go to a medical appointment.

John B
Yes, my physical therapist. Was injured on a hike. Also seeing a foot doctor at a major medical center.

My husband & I don't own any training wheels. When I met him he was a competitive power lifter...dead lifted 650 pounds. However, since he wasn't using steroids if was to hard for him to compete so he quit that. Then on a whim he entered a bicycle race on an old bicycle & even though other riders had expensive bikes & there were about 200 racers...he came in 2nd because of his strong legs. So he started doing double centuries (200 miles) on his bicycle & other rides in many states/locations. He would ride 200 miles in over 100 degree heat with a 15,000 foot elevation climb in 10 hours. He did the triple crown which is where you do 3 double centuries in one summer. Then after over 5 years of that he switched to competing in body building shows without steroids/drugs. He did some non-drug tested shows but mainly he did drug tested shows. Our house is filled with trophies. This is his hobby, not his job. Since his idea of a hike is always to the top of the highest mountain around....I had to be in top condition so I could bike with him. But this year we both had some injuries so we are taking a break to heal up. He got injured first & had surgery and now he is doing quite well but he is increasing his activity at a reasonable rate so as to not cause any further injuries. I am avoiding surgery but it takes a long time to heal...and it will take a lot of work to get back into top shape again..

John...don't get your panties in a tight wad over a typo. You don't seem to be the type that wears boxers. If typos bother you so much...just skip reading my stuff and don't give yourself a heart attack. Or maybe you should just go get a life cause if typos are that important to you...you need a hobby.

John B
When I grew up half of my relatives lived in the same neighborhood or within a half hours drive. We grew almost all our own food...always got a years supply in the freezer, canned, etc. every summer. My relatives tend to be health nuts...some are vegetarian, some vegan, some eat clean meats. My dad was the best dad in the world and a great person. It would be impossible for any of them to do the things you mentioned. We didn't even lock our doors since we lived on the same block. Relatives would knock & walk right in. My grandmother had a habit of going through people's things. It was almost like living in a multi-generation house hold with my aunts, uncles, & cousins around so much. To bad more people don't have that kind of situation. Anyway, it would be near impossible for anyone in that situation to sneak around doing bad things without being found out. And I know them to well to not know what they do/do not do.

John
Just because you have crappy parents and relatives who are hard up for sex so they surf the internet, get drunk, and use drugs...doesn't mean that everybody's families do that. But at least know I know why you turned out the way you did. Thanks for the info. Only people who can't believe that some families don't do those things have families that do those things. By the way, at least half of my relatives chose not to have a computer....but I am sure that the x rated web sites get enough business from you to make up for it.

Grant,
I'm assuming that you probably live in Georgia since this web site seems to be from that area. However, I live in a different state and have traveled a lot within the USA, Europe, Canada, & some in Mexico. Laws differ in different states and especially in Canada. Check out the laws in Mass. & CA.

Grant,
Canada is especially bad on these issues also.

Grant,
Not feeling the love? Well, maybe to know you is to love you but I don't know you.
And your definition of love may not be the same as mine. For example, I don't consider perversion to be love.

Speakling about perversion...at one business there are two employees. One employee is a woman who had a sex change operation. The other employee is a man who had a sex change operation...and " it's" partner is also a man who had a sex change operation...and looks like the ugliest "woman" in town.

My husband said, "If you were born a man and thought you were a woman...and had a sex change operation to look like a woman...if you thought that you were a woman wouldn't you want to be with a man? Not another man who had a sex change operation to look like a woman? (although that goal failed) I told him...maybe they think that they are lesbians now. I wish that Racer X could go out on a date with them...especially since he tells his wife that he is a lesbian....he would fit right in...ROFL.

I bet they think that they would be good role models for kids and want to be leaders in the Boy Scouts. There goes the slippery slope!

Tammy,
You are a lot more intelligent than grant. Thank goodness that even less then intelligent people can be saved.

John B
Every time you take your foot out of your mouth you put the other one in.

John B
If you think I'm a fraud then shut up and go talk to somebody else. When it comes to engaging in a reasonable manner about a subject you are about as useful as a one legged man in a butt kicking contest. Every time you try to kick someone in the ass you fall on yours.

John
You don't have feelings. You only have a big mouth with nothing of value to listen to coming out of it. If my dad met you he would say your not the kind of guy that I should be associating with. My dad was from the south (he died a few years ago) and he was the best southern gentleman I ever met. A heart of gold. But I didn't grow up in the south because my dad moved to another state where he met my mom & had me. But I've been around the south...and one thing I like about it is that many southern men are real gentlemen...which I doubt any of you online here are. Either that or you act much different online than you do in person. Don't tell me you are christians and then tell me that your not "feeling the love". I hope not...because I'm not giving you the love...I'm giving you the boot. Shape up or ship out....don't need your nonsense.

John B, didn't we cover this with a different person on a different thread not long ago? I'm going to start counting how many times I see the word YOU in the attacks on here. Amazing that the four fingers don't point back, but all five point at YOU. Put downs and accusations are not godly. Fruit of the spirit doesn't accuse, not haughty or angry all the time. Just sayin'.

And by the way...you lost your credibility when you said that the apostle Paul was possibly homosexual. You sound like the GLBT organizations that claim that Abraham Lincoln was gay. I am a fan of Lincoln and read about him a lot and they are making a bunch of lies out of nothing. However, that Lincoln movie that came out recently was interesting.

The leaders of the Boy Scouts said that they will not make a decision regarding allowing homosexuals in the Boy Scouts until at least May. I have already made my decision about the Boy Scouts. If it takes them more than 5 minutes to make a decision to keep their policies as they are...I no longer support them. It shouldn't be about money or sponsors or what certain groups think. It should be only about what the Bible says is morally right. Through the years many people were martyers for their faith. They were persecuted, burned at the stake, tortured, hung from crosses, forced to hide in caves, etc. rather than cave in instead of standing up for the truth. It would be a dishonor to them for the Boy Scouts to ignore that and give in to perverted pressure from people who shouldn't even be allowed to join the Boy Scouts. I'm not giving them money...they are already rich and own many expensive acres of land for scouts to go camping in. Why give them money so that they can invest in expensive land and then have them change their policy to something that I would not want to support. That would make me mad that I helped them get rich and own all that land just to use if for something that I'm opposed too. So as far as Caleb is concerned, he can join the church youth club instead or other organizations. Sounds to me like the leaders of the Boy Scouts are not the kind of people that I would want around a kid anyway...to wishy washy about what is right or wrong.

Racer X
No. I didn't bump my head. I didn't even know that I was injured until after the hike when I took my shoe off and even then I only felt a little bit of discomfort. Then next morning when I woke up my foot was extremely swollen and I couldn't step on it at all. I went straight to the doctor's office after calling my employer to say that I couldn't come in for work. I tore a ligament...and the bursa is swollen/painful....etc. The foot doctor at a major medical university told me to avoid surgery and let it heal. I'm wearing a medical boot...have to get physical therapy etc. The doctor said that it could take a year to heal...so I had to get on to temporary disability because I can't be on my feet and I don't have a seditary job. Recently I had also developed another health problem which could be life threatening if I don't take care of it...but I should be OK in a few months if I do take care of it. Got some more appointments about that this next week. So now I feel that I can't accomplish to much at home but I'm doing laundry, shopping for groceries, and trying to update my computer skills. Might take some classes to improve my job skills since I can do that online or by sitting in a chair where the classes are. Maybe start going to a Bible study group if it isn't to far away. I can drive the car but not the pick-up because I can't drive a stick shift with my bad foot. Anyway, everything is alright, it's in God's hands.

Racer X
You worried about my head? Well, bless your heart sunny boy. You must have said your prayers this morning. I wonder if you pray with your kids. My head's just fine...it's whats in yours that I pray to God about.

Not sure if I'll be back. Might move on to a more productive web site and local Bible study group that I used to go too when my work schedule allowed me too. Or spend more time updating my computer skills.
May the Holy Spirit bring all things in scripture to your remembrance.

John B
Once bitten, twice shy. When I decide whether or not to believe something I consider the source...and I will have to take what you say with a grain of salt....well...maybe with a box of salt. If you call typing up Bible texts that condemn sin HATE then you know nothing about Christianity...but that doesn't mean that you can't learn. When you defend something that is condemned in the Bible and obvioiusly don't believe that the Bible is the word of God...and act like a rabid dog...and then tell me that I am the one that needs sensitivity classes...you are definately not in your right mind. I have one word of advice for you that my Dad used to say. Here it is: "If you are to open minded your brains will fall out." Good advice. Bye.

Marie, I'm sorry about your injury. Here's to praying for a speedy recovery.

I want to thank you all for confirming in extreme for me how right I am to be against the GLBT agenda & allowing GLBT in the Boy Scouts...& how right I am to send chidren to private school where they are not indoctrined with a bunch of politically correct, morally wrong false & incorrect information. You have definately emphasized to me how important it is to forbid children to associate with pro-GLBT people & their children so that they don't turn out like you. They way you talk/ act is not a good example to them. Our children are taught better. I believe that children should be taught manners & how to discuss things in a reasonable manner...not act like rabid dogs like most of you do. You all must have had a horrible upbring because no good parent would put up with your trash talk/attitude. My dad wouldn't put up with your crap for 2 minutes...he was the perfect example of a gentleman. Your claim to be christians is a lie. You are probably all atheist GLBT people. I won't be back to see what you say.. nothing that comes out of your mouth is worth listening too. I don't intend to crawl into the gutter with you. You act lower than a snakes belly. Narrow is the gate & straight is the way that leads to life/salvation and few there be that find it. Wide is the gate & many are the paths that lead to destruction. You are on the path to hell.

Ok, so I went to the bible, and there it was.. It said Adam and Eve...Not Adam and Steve... case closed... now give me some of what yall are drinking..

For some reason I am thinking of the pharisee publican and the sinner in the gospels...one went home justified and one did not. It was probably a surprise to the self righteous one that he was not considered justified, but the lowly humble sinner was. I'm kind of thinking that God doesn't care much for my over righteous assessment of ME....or Maries. lol
Thank God this post is over!!

Hey Grant, Hows the view from those cheap seats.........down there ??

@Cowboy - I don't think your holiness "cowboy" will have what I'm drinking...its made by sinners, served by sinners, in the company of sinners, for sinners....wouldn't want you to catch what we lowly sinners have. So as we watch you ride your horse with the angels into the sunset we'll continue to pray to our deity for wisdom, courage, guidance and the strength to discern between right and wrong without judging others but rather, with understanding and kindness, sharing that which God gave his only son for.....LOVE!!!!

Oh, my goodness. I am so glad I didn't follow this thread beyond the first few comments. I learned a few things, though, so it was worth my time since it has been a slow Monday:

1. Marie's got someone else beat in the preachy Scripture-quoting sermonette dept., takes top spot in the know-it-all dept., and in the judgment dept.

2. An entire historic Christian denomination is doomed to hell, says Marie.

3. A couple of A-holes admitted to being A-holes, so that was new.

4. I find myself surprised to agree with a couple of said A-holes on a matter or two.

5. As to the winner of the biggest Patch A-hole contest, you have at least one more worthy contender.

Here are a couple of thoughts some of you can run with since Marie has (maybe) left the building. Disclaimer: they're off topic and may be considered as hijacking the conversation:

1. Same sex pairings occur in the animal kingdom.

2. Christianity isn't that complicated.

1. Yes, same sex pairings occur in nature but all the other animals still make fun of them.
2. I believe you are right, Christianity is not as complicated as some make it. I do know some are better Christians than others as I am not a very good one myself.